I'm Homeless and That's OK So Back OFF!

[Dominic]

Everyone in the homeless sector wants things to be better for the homeless... more resources more funding, more help.

There is a sub-section of homeless people though that want some degree of support, or sometimes no support... and don't want to be fixed or changed or mainstreamed.

They just want to be left alone. Or at least for service providers to understand that it's OK for them to be homeless and that is where they need to be for now.

A friend describes my occasional need for alone time during times of extreme stress as going into my cave. If I needed to work something out I would 'go into my cave' and think it out rather than talk it out. Maybe a guy thing but I get needing to retreat, to be left alone and let be, so in your own good time you come out the other side in your own damn time and in your own way.

A number of homeless people are on the streets because they have experienced extreme stress. Some people need to retreat from mainstream society. But I don't think many service providers understand that. Some people need to be left be and what they need the most is time.

Digestion - some things need time to go by so digestion can take place. Some people need to be outside, away, removed from... etc for that digestion to occur. News Flash!!! That's OK.

Even if someone doesn't have something to digest... there needs to be some level of respect for homeless people who want to be left be, and want service providers to understand they don't want to be fixed or changed just now.

IMO Service providers need to be able to let people take their time.

The other side of the street:
* Vulnerable young people?
* People with Mental Illness?
* Impact of homeless presence on businesses?

What is your experience or opinion?

[Tom.]

This is something that I have been trying to put across to service providers for a long time. Many homeless people just want ' time out.' Being homeless does not necessarily mean ' being broken,' or in need of fixing.

People, (homeless or not) that have issues to work through need time to work through those issues. Let's be honest, who does not have issues to work through? Those issues could be family related or whatever, life is problematic for all of us to some degree of severity or other.

For some homeless people their homelessness can be likened to a boken leg. But unlike a broken leg, the pain can be in their mind. No Doctor would expect someone with a broken leg to to run or even walk immediately afterward the damage was caused, it takes time to get back on their feet.

With that in mind, is it not foolish of the service providers to try and rush someone into a recovery (rehabilitation) programme? This might be something that the service providers want, but is it what the homeless person is ready for, or even wants? The chances are that he is still in pain, and not ready to be able to run. Or maybe he does not want to run anyway, and is quite at peace with his situation.

The whole system seems to be about what others want for us. What about what the homeless person wants? In many cases that is to be left alone to live his life without interference from the, albeit, well intended care workers.

[Remy]

i guess this is the issue of the pendulum that swings too far. on the one hand you could have service providers ignoring the issue at all levels, so government, the workers, charities... and there would be outcry. so then on the other side you have them utilising resources and attacking the "problem" without discriminating between those that are maybe happy where they are and those that are homeless due to contributing factors and are in need of "help".

is there ever a happy medium with any social issue?

[Steel Butterfly]

I agree that homeless people need to be given more time by the system. When you become homeless, you not only have to deal with ending up on the streets, but you also have to deal with whatever trauma put you there. And for most people, these are major traumas, which would send anyone spinning, such as divorce, abuse, rape, emotinal problems, loss of job, etc. When you are homeless, you have no choice but to adjust to streetlife - it's kind of "sink-or-swim".

But then, when you've already got all these emotionally draining things to work through, the homeless system adds to the pressure by making you jump through hoops so that you can claim welfare benefits, or so you can get into a hostel, etc.. All this can be indescribably stressful, especially when you're already in a state of shock from everything else that has happened to you. And that is when homeless people could do with being given some time to cope and readjust.

I also agree with what Tom said, that homeless people are not "broken" by default. In fact, many of my friends who have never been homeless, have as many - in some cases more - issues as my homeless friends. So, if someone is going to assume that homeless people are all "damaged and dysfunctional", then surely the same must apply to about 90% of the human race, because almost everyone has been through traumas in their lives.

Obviously, homeless is a hard life, and can leave many scars for many people. But it can also make you feel a lot stronger, because once you've been through homelessness and come out the other side - what else is there can be as scary as that?

I just think it should be down to the homeless indivduals to have a right to chose how they deal with that "hard life", and that they should not be forced into doing anything because the system says so.

[Tom.]

Another major deterrent that I personally found about taking up a place of my own to live in was the 'low financial income' that is associated with it.
Even outside of this present world recession when jobs were available, trying to live a normal [housed] life on a low income, such as minimum wage, or welfare benefits, is not an attractive enticement for homeless people.

We all know that the cost of everyday housekeeping is not cheap. Once all the bills such as electricity, water, etc have been paid people on a low income have no money left to establish any form of social life.
When living on the streets there is always something happening, but once you take up accommodation and employment, you return from work to a cold empty flat, perhaps in an area where you know no-one, and life can be pretty lonely and meaningless.
Once you close that front door it can be likened to shutting the rest of the world out. Living a life of ' bed to work, and work to bed ' with no money left to socialise with leads to a feeling of emptiness, and social exclusion. Many of my ex-street friends that took up a place of their own to live in could not even afford to buy a television to watch.

What is the point in taking on a low paid job and ending up with no money left at the end of the month when you can achieve the same result by living out on the streets?
Moving people off of the streets and into accommodation is just in reality moving them from one form of poverty to another, and all too often that move can detract from a persons mental wellbeing.

Living on the streets can in many cases give a person a better quality of life in the psychological sense, than being in a box (called home) and living a life of loneliness and mental anxiety, due to the financial burdens placed upon him.
At least by living on the streets there is a sense of comradship and a sense of belonging, and yes it is tough, but is the alternative less or more stressful?

Homelessness is just another face of poverty, and the street homeless people represent that fact. If homelessness could be eliminated, poverty would still be with us, but perhaps not as evident as it is. Street homeless people serve to remind us all that there are major problems in the fiscal policies of the nations politics.

[denmcintyre]

Tom, thank you!!! That post was SPOT ON! Most service providers think they are doing people a favor by putting them in a crappy apartment in a crappier part of town and helping them tofind a job that will barely cover the rent much less the other bills and food.
You are also exactly right concerning fiscal policies and I am glad, and sad as well, to see that these problems exost outside the US. I have been reading a lot lately about the fair tax and the living wage as opposed to the minimum wage laws we have in effect now. For instance, a person in my county would have to make $18/hour to make ends meet in a 2 bedroom apartment. The average wage is about $12/hour, meaning a shortfall of over $800 per month. Imagine living on $7.25/hour.... Part of what I ma working on will now include a proposal to change our minimum wage laws as that is the only way to truly make a dent in poverty. Thanks for the inspirational and informative post!
Happy Memorial Day to my fellow Vets!!!!
Peace,
dennis

[Norie]

I'm living in Sydney. I understand how you felt in your post and with the recession everywhere in the world and it is not going to get better any sooner for a lot of countries, especially the third world countries.

In this morning in our local news, it was reported that they will be lots more people make homeless and unable to afford to provide for their families and charities places that provides free beds and meals have seen an increased in the last few months with more people coming for free meals and help.

Tom, no offense and don’t get me wrong, I have to disagree with what you have written about ‘living on the streets can in many cases give a person a better quality of life’.

There are many ways in socialising and keeping in touch with your friends, you don’t have to close your front door and shutting the rest of the world out. Invite your friends to come over when you are home and weekends. Most local pubs provide television and community centres too and locals are welcomes. Most local community centres have activities facilities, games room and local can stay and play games and make new friends.

norie

[Tom.]

Hello Norie, thanks for your post.

Tom, no offense and don’t get me wrong, I have to disagree with what you have written about ‘living on the streets can in many cases give a person a better quality of life’.

Running a home costs money, having just a little money to do that can give a person many sleepless nights and mental anxieties about how to pay the bills etc. People living on the streets are free from those anxieties and sleepless nights of worry. Therefore being free of those worries can give a homeless person a better quality on life because of the freedom from those anxieities.

I don't know if you have ever lived on the streets but if not, and no offence intended to you either, but that is an unqualified remark that I have quoted from you above. Only people that have been on, or are living on the streets understand the mindset of streetlife. Watching a ball-game from the sidelines is not the same as playing the ball-game. All the people on the sidelines think they know how to play the game better, but it is those that are playing the game that have to deal with it. That is reality.

Secondly, my post did not refer to me specifically in all instances. I echo the feelings and concerns of my street colleagues. I lived on the streets for eight years and I know what many street people are saying because it is a common factor.

There are many ways in socialising and keeping in touch with your friends, you don’t have to close your front door and shutting the rest of the world out. Invite your friends to come over when you are home and weekends. Most local pubs provide television and community centres too and locals are welcomes. Most local community centres have activities facilities, games room and local can stay and play games and make new friends.

In the event I now have a place to live, and I have a very big social circle of friends, many of whom come around to my place, or me to their's frequently.
That is about me specifically. that is me personally, it cannot work for everyone. While living on the streets I did not consider for one moment trying to run a home on welfare benefits or a low paid job.
One of those friends that I refer to is on the verge of moving back onto the streets after being in a place of his own for the last two years. Having now lost his job he cannot afford to live on welfare payments, and as you rightly say, jobs are very scarce.

Again, this is the reality of homelessness, not a theory. Homeless people do not want or need to be patronised. In most cases they want the chance to live away from poverty in a place of their own, and on a living wage. Or in other words, to be given a fair chance to build a life for themselves.

I now live on an occupational pension, and I am not reliant on welfare payments. That puts me in a fortunate position. But it is also something that I worked hard for prior to my homelessness.

As for going into a pub to watch television, a person would need money to buy some drinks to do that. You cannot walk into a pub in London with the sole purpose of watching television. You would soon be asked to leave.

Community centres are [generally speaking] for elderly people and I would suggest that it works for some people, but again this is not a substitute for a real social life.

My postings on these forums are not intended to teach people how to live with poverty, but rather to highlight the consequencies of poverty.
I'm sure that your post is well intended, albeit to a degree patronising, but if you have not been homeless yourself then you cannot begin to realise how off the mark it is.

On the other hand, if you have been homeless, and your suggestions worked for you, that is all well and good. But you cannot expect it to work for everyone. Homeless people want lives to live, not consolation placements in another form of poverty. That is something the ruling powers must take on board if they are really concerned about ending the homeless situation.They need to invest now in social reforms to curb the rising trends in homelessness. It may well take many years to benefit from those investments to show through, but homelessness will only worsen if those prevailing powers choose to ignore it. ' Tackle the fire, and the smoke will eventually disappear.'

[bobbyrob22]

I agree, when I was first homeless I remember someone stopping to talk with me. He said you can get 3 free meals a day at the salvation army here in kentucky. I thought about it for a while and had to fight with myself to go there for the first time. I didnt like it. The other homeless people were ok but the way staff treated and looked down upon me was so frustrating and as I left that day, I never returned. I didnt have a job or any income so I had to panhandle to make money, and I promised myself if I couldnt get any money then I would swallow my pride and go to the salvation army, but that never happened thanks to the man above.

On another occasion I was offered a place to stay free of charge till I found a job, however, this place was out in the country miles from anything, I had no car, no gas money for people to take me anywhere and no way to get back and forth even if I did find a job. It would have been a SAFE WARM place to sleep for a while but I just couldnt let myself be put in that situation. To me it would have been worse than being homeless.

After being homeless a while and living in the woods, under a bridge, etc... my family set out a search for me and found me and asked me pleaded with me to come back home. For days I hesitated because I had simply become accustomed to this way of life and didnt really want to go back to the "normal" life of going to bed, getting up early, going to work, come home, eat, go to bed, then do the same dam thing all over again the next day. To me that just seemed to depress me to even think of doing it because when I was homeless, after a while, I sort of got the feeling of freedom like i never felt before. The only thing that convinced me to return was the fact my mother had gotten ill with diabetes, heart complications, and 3 hernias on top of that so I felt that it was my "duty" to come home and help her. If it wasnt for my mother, I dont think I would have came back to "reality"...

[sparkyharky]

When I was homeless I didn't want the "help" of most of the service providers because I didn't want them in my personal business. I did NOT want to work with a social worker and possibly have my personal info spread around. Social workers DO discuss their clients with other social workers. I slept in my car, ate wherever meals were being served and did my best to avoid the police. I even bought black posterboard and tape and cut the posterboard to fit the windows in my car to keep out the light and keep the police away. I got off the streets when I was ready and not before. I not only slept in my car I was also a couch surfer..to a degree...I hated the service providers...they were the Enemy....

[Dominic]

I've made this thread sticky as i think it's important for new people coming into the forums wanting to learn. Thanks to those who expanded on my original post.

[findingmyself]

I get where your coming from, and to me, if a person wants to be homeless, and doesn't go out and cause a ton of havoc thats fine. Its the issue that people tend to be homeless and drink that damn natty ice or do drug (would say here in st pete thats 20 percent) go out and mess it up for everyone. St pete at one time was cool to homeless people. Then some of them took over the park, begging for cigs and money at the rays games(mlb team), and making general asses of themselfs. People who lived around the shelters got pissed and complianed, then the cops had to get into it, anti sleeping and beggin laws were passed, and such. That and sadly when your walking around with a suitcase, you tend to scream homeless.... so yeah, that crap don't fly were i am at.

[LadyHrtCares4u]

I think I learned more in this thread of discussion than anywhere else! While I Do want to extend help to those who want it...I do not want to be one of those dreaded service providers talked about. When I was living in my van...the shelter that was "helping" me simply wanted to push me into a job..any job reguardless of weither I could DO the job or not...and requardless if it would actually pay the basic bills. Most of them wouldn't! I didn't comply and get a job in their set time frame so they told me they were no longer able to help me. Fine, I understood.

The homeless showing up in my own community are families...many with children. Mostly due to the factories around here closing down or laying off so many. People are loosing their homes and just finding themselves on the street. They have no clue what to do, where to start...most don't even know what kind of help is out there..if any. They are so lost!

I don't want to intrude in their personal business, I don't want to try to know better than themselves what is best for them. I WOULD like to simply offer a "no strings" attached place to come in out of the cold. A place to shower and rest. A place to get a warm meal for themselves and their kids. If they need help knowing what assistance is out there and how to get it...I'd like to be able to provide the information. If they need a ride to some place, be able to give them a ride. Simply speaking..a point of contact for them. many welfare assistance programs will not help you if you do not have a current address! I ran into that myself...how do I get an address if I'm living in my van? No one seemed to have an answer for that one. I'd like to offer a safe place for them to leave their kids while they do whatever it is they have to do to take care of their business.

Do I make since? Just handing someone some cash and hoping for the best for them isn't enough. Not to my way of thinking...that won't keep them warm when the snow comes. How do I help without being in the same class as those dreaded service providers mentioned in this line of conversation?

Thank you for your time and thanks in advance for any and all return comments!

[Ron Austin]

I work for a service agency and have been doing so for 14 years. The problem is that when an agency is in it's infancy and is not grant driven and receive all of their funding from the public they have a lot of latitude to be humanistic in their dealings with the homeless. They can consider a number of the people they work with and have moved on as successes even though they may not have gotten jobs, housing, savings accounts, etc.

But an agency that is fully funded from grants has to jump through hoops for the grant providers in order to keep operating. Often the grant providers are very anal and set requirements very high for the numbers to be produced for the agency to maintain the grant requirements.

Most all the time the requirements are very cut and dry get them jobs, housing, bank accounts and move them along. If they have mental conditions get them on meds and if they can work then get them jobs, housing, bank accounts and move them along. If they can't work because their mental condition is debilitating get them on social security (in the US), mainstream or subsidized housing and move them along. If they have physical conditions the things are done. There is no consideration that a success has been accomplished unless the afore mentioned criteria has been met.

I remember a lady that came into my program some years ago she was diagnosed as paranoid schizophrenic and would periodically lash out violenty at other members of one of my crews she worked on. At some point we get her on stabilizing meds which gave her a more social attitude toward people.

She left the agency on her own and the agency because of the requirements placed on them by grant providers marked her as a failure. But I considered her as a success. Because now when she interacts with people she will not fly off at the slightest provocation and will be able to interact in a positive manner that could very well benefit her.

So unless the agencies are given flexible and more humanistic requirements by the grant providers don't expect them to be flexible in their dealings with the homeless because they won't.

[Jor-EL]

Originally Posted by Ron Austin

But an agency that is fully funded from grants has to jump through hoops for the grant providers in order to keep operating. Often the grant providers are very anal and set requirements very high for the numbers to be produced for the agency to maintain the grant requirements.

Enlightening post Ron. Thanks.

Just like corporate media, which is kept alive through commercial sponsorship, here is yet another example of the hazards of receiving money with "strings attached." Money with "conditions."

Organizations that could run very fluidly for the benefit of a troubled society, are hobbled by money.

[Big Cutter]

This is one of the better discussions I have read.I have met a lot of homeless people who are so by choice. They are not broken or in need of fixing.When they are ready, find themselves,or get over whatever issues they have that made them get away from the mainstream they will go back. In their own time. I don't know that I would have chose homelessness, I would do as I have now head to the mountains for a week.And service providers need to see this. Some people don't want what they are offering, just want to be left alone.

As a service provider(and homeless) until reading this I really didn't see it.But now I do.Looking back I can see with some people no matter what to offer, or to say they just weren't interested. Until now I thought ,hell I don't know what I thought. But I know I will look at things differently now. And learn to give them space when it looks that is really all they want.Thanks guys this disetter at helping.cussion has really opened my eues and I think will make me b

[Eternity]

I think you all have good points. Some people are homeless by choice and there's nothing wrong with it at all. I like to eat broccoli by choice too and there's nothing wrong with that either. Same thing! :P

The thing that irks me is when homeless people come into a service, and as staff you are expected to push the idea of case management and getting this person accommodation. That is great for a lot of people but some people don't believe they have a problem to be fixed and they are happy being homeless. For example, one of the guys I was talking to was telling me how he's always been a free spirit and he enjoys travelling all over Australia (where we live) and not being tied down to one particular spot. He goes to the bush, out into the outback, sometimes cities, sometimes country, and he loves it. He goes where he wants, when he wants. He said how it fits him just as well as having a house/family/2.5 kids/car fits a lot of other people. Since that conversation I have come across a lot more people who are the same way.

I think we should only assist the people who, themselves, believe they have a problem to be fixed. We should not assume that just because you are homeless, then you have a problem. I really used to hate doing that, because as staff we were told we MUST try and do case management with every single person. Because they are homeless. Thus, they have a problem.

I know a lot of people who prefer to sleep on a park bench than go to these services and be made to try and change things that don't need to be changed. I can think of 5 people off the top of my head. I, for one, don't want to dictate to people how to live their lives... if a person has a problem I will help them as much as I can but I'm not going to say "you cannot live like this because its not "normal". It's not my place to judge.


-- Eternity

[frost]

sorry for the following response: it is icy cold at 7 A.M. when you are pushed out the door of the shelter. Nowhere to go. Seven churches do provide dinner (one church for each day of the week). Lonely, hungry, cold (icy cold)...no where to go....walk a few miles to the library, each day to hang out there until it is finally time to go for food and then to the shelter. Not long before mental illness becomes reality. Hypothermia is in the air you breathe...frost bite tingles in your hands and feet. I do not know the rest of you who have posted, but death is a daily reality....and there is nothing liberating or a form of freedom. Only loneliness, despair, and a diminishing chance of staying alive.

[Jor-EL]

Originally Posted by frost

sorry for the following response: it is icy cold at 7 A.M. when you are pushed out the door of the shelter. Nowhere to go. Seven churches do provide dinner (one church for each day of the week). Lonely, hungry, cold (icy cold)...no where to go....walk a few miles to the library, each day to hang out there until it is finally time to go for food and then to the shelter. Not long before mental illness becomes reality. Hypothermia is in the air you breathe...frost bite tingles in your hands and feet. I do not know the rest of you who have posted, but death is a daily reality....and there is nothing liberating or a form of freedom. Only loneliness, despair, and a diminishing chance of staying alive.

Sorry Frost if I sound a bit flippant, but have you considered moving south to a warmer climate ? It might not solve your mental anguish, but at least you won't have to deal with the dangerously frigid temperatures of that area.

[findingmyself]

In what i have learned since last posting, i can see easily why people might want to be homeless. The power elite that is the trilaterial commission, world bank, etc, makes us all wage slaves. Brainwashes us into debt thru mass media control, making us spend money on things we really don't need. And if someone were to figure out how the social order works, yeah it might make them say to hell with it.

I personally take issue with paying rent on something i am not buying outright, or a wealthy elite getting rich on my backs. I own a home, i need water, power etc. That takes money out of my pocket, and into rich bastards.... Just saying....

And on top of that, the world government will bail out banks, large companies, etc. But the average citizen needs a hand, yeah they go thru all this red tape bs. And those same banks would take the homes of the same tax payers whos taxes went to bail them out. I didn't use to understand why people would say screw the system. But the greeks went off the chain on their government for the bs there pulling, maybe one day us americans will get it to....